How many are in camera/photographic clubs?

[John Hallas]

I joined a local camera club, The Leeds Photographic Society which is the oldest Photographic Society in the world founded in 1852, just about a year ago.

I think it has really expanded my photographic horizons. The judging comments have been useful and sometimes even helpful and the contacts I have made has been very good and I have been on a few local trips with members that was very enjoyable. I have actually only entered about 2 competitions myself but I have enjoyed looking at other submissions.

This is the only photographic forum I am a member of and that has been very helpful, however I have mentioned before there is not often much negative comment on an effort and I think societies and clubs tend to produce more direct feedback which if both given and taken in a constructive manner can benefit the photographer.

I have started a poll just to get some numbers (and because I fancied starting a poll)

[miketoll]

That is an interesting point about not much negative feed back. If you are having a face to face discussion with someone at a club then nuances of tone and facial expressions can be easily read so misunderstandings are usually avoided but this is not the case on a forum. Folk here do not want to hurt anyone's feelings so are careful, the best thing to do is to put some photos up in the critique forum stating what you are looking for as well as asking for all feed back (good and critical) in the gallery. The other side of the coin are the forums where unpleasantness and flaming are common place which is equally unhelpful as well as upsetting. Enjoy the club and this forum I say!

[John Hallas]

I agree Mike with you Mike, I am not stating that there is anything wrong with this forum but you can be drawn into false self-confidence about your pictures if you relied on feedback on here.

Take a look at this image of mine and note the vignetting in the top corners. Actually I think it is the lens hood. I had not even seen that myself and nobody commented about it.

The comment I got on my clubs forum were :-

Looks a nice arcade, well worth a shot, I think some work is required on the shadows,
the crop is odd for me I feel it needs more on the bottom, the person on the right has
been partially cut, that's my opinion anyways. Interesting vignetting your lens has.
I like the people showing motion blur, adds atmosphere.

and

Agree with the shadows point already raised. Dare I suggest an HDR approach could have worked well with this type of scene!

I don't know the arcade so it might not work - but I'd like to see it with a more symmetrical shot with the main arch central in the frame. The composition looks slightly odd to my eye - but like I said I don't know the arcade and wasn't there.

A lot more direct but also perhaps more accurate and more likely to help me improve my work.

Just food for thought. I am not recommending flaming and nasty comments but it is not the first time I have mentioned this issue before regarding comments on this forum.

[miketoll]

Interesting John, looking at the picture again I must admit I had not noticed the vignetting which I agree looks like the lens hood. I also agree it needs more at the bottom but do not agree with cutting the bloke off on the right, I think he is just sitting down. But I take your point about getting a proper detailed critique from others whereas it was lacking in comments on the forum (including mine), Don't worry I shall be more mean about your pictures in future! The camera club I went to many years ago was not like yours but was off putting in that a couple of senior members were sycophantically looked up to with their medium format equipment and when judges came they were so stuck up, talk about a visit from one of the gods handing out wisdom to mere mortals. There opinions were not open for discussion or explanation. I did not stay long and have been a loner ever since whilst admitting it would be great to be a member of a good club hopefully not too far away as I live in "the sticks."

[gordon g]

I dont belong to a club, nor do I wish to. I recently went on a course with some people who were very involved in a photography club. The views of competition judges seemed to dominate their interpretations of the landscape we were in, and stifle any individuality in their subject choice. I have a group of good friends that I have met through photography courses, who meet up periodically for the day or for a trip away with the cameras. We share images amongst ourselves, and know each other well enough to give critical feedback if needed. And then there's this forum - I agree there tends to be a lot of 'great shot' comments, which are very nice for the ego but dont really help you improve. I want to know why it may or may not be a 'great shot', and try to give reasons when I comment. But I think that, with time, you develop a network of friends on here too that you can be a lot more direct with, and who understand your criticism isnt a personal attack.
All in all I prefer to build my own network rather than use a formal club setting, but each to their own.

[yelvertoft]

If you want more than "great shot" comments, stick your pictures in the critique forum and put the effort into explaining what you were trying to achieve and which areas you want guidance on.

As for clubs, the one I attended many years ago was full of the "stuffed shirts" that Gordon is talking about. Fine if you took pictures of steam engines, classic cars, oh, and cats strangely enough. But any pictures that didn't fit their very narrow remit (based primarily on subject), you could expect a blasting regardless of its merits.

John, I'll make more effort to be less positive towards you. Think the arcade needs to be symmetrical in its composition and needs more on the bottom, and the vignetting needs fixing.

[John Hallas]

A good response to this thread until the last sentence of the last post which was both patronising and pathetic.

[yelvertoft]

Originally Posted by John Hallas

A good response to this thread until the last sentence of the last post which was both patronising and pathetic.

Sorry John, it wasn't intended to be that way. I guess this reinforces what Mike said "misunderstandings are usually avoided but this is not the case on a forum. Folk here do not want to hurt anyone's feelings so are careful".

You asked for feedback. I expressed my opinion. I cannot see what is either patronising or pathetic about my last sentence but if you choose to take offence then I'm sorry.

Allow me to rephrase. I think the crop as you have it gives an unbalanced look which could be redressed by taking the image in portrait format to emphasise the tall space and also allow the eye to be led through the frame. I have recropped the image to show the kind of thing I was thinking of, though I would have given more space to the bottom of the frame; this would have also meant the camera was not pointing upwards which has tilted the perspective and made the columns lean back. I've done some perspective shift to reduce this and also shifted sideways a bit as you weren't quite square on the the passageway. This crop has also got rid of the vignetting.

[John Hallas]

OK, perhaps I reacted to quickly. I thought you were just sarcasticly repeating the comments that I had already posted about the image. Sorry.

Your image is much better than mine and you have addressed the lack of symmetry which it was calling out for. I still cannot believe I never saw the lens hood shadow in the top corners

I think I still have the original (the benefits of Lightroom) so I will try re-working it myself as well. I am putting some time and effort in tryingt o make my photography better. I think my main problem is that I don't actually take that many photographs, something I am hoping to address in the next few months.

John

[andy153]

Interesting thread John - (joke coming to avoid misunderstanding) - is this why you've changed your ID from Johnnybike to John Hallas - to avoid your earlier posts here? LOL . But seriously, I've belonged to three clubs in my time, Manchester Photographic, Bury Photographic and now, Abergele Camera Club which is just over 12 months old. You are right about critique here on WPF - it is quite gentle compared with Camera Clubs I've known and if you want serious critique, as Duncan says, use the critique forum. Or if you want something torn apart use the pm or email systems, I'm sure there are many here who would be quite blunt if asked. Don't forget, clubs and forums are made up of human beings, some of whom are more delicate than others. I always try and find something encouraging for people who I think are beginners or younger members - or I don't comment. Some who I have got to know well I will pm or email with suggestions rather than put it in open forum. I know that many do not get my kind of photography, but still i persist. Your pictures are your capture of a moment in time, any alterations you do are your attempts to alter or improve that moment and many will not get it simply because they are not you, do not have your eyes and were not there. Attached is my effort at the Arcade - a shot of great promise in an interesting venue. Whether post processing can ever truly turn a pigs ear into a silk purse ( Joke John, not personal ) is a matter for trial and tribulation. Sometimes I feel I just have to grin and decide b*gg*r - I messed up and cannot rescue it - then perhaps you can experiment with various filters to see what else can be made from the shot. As you can probably gather from my photos in the gallery I say b*gg*r quite a bit with all the playing around I do - Keep smiling and taking the tablets.