How to assemble and shoot stacked rev 50

[Alex Paul]

I posted this on a couple of sites where I received a lot of requests to share my technique and settings for the reversed 50.. I am posting it here for you guys so that if you decide to give it a go you have the info too.... Take care....Alex

First let me say I am no self proclaimed expert at this stuff but I have been getting a lot of requests to explain how I am using the reversed 50 set up....Most of us have seen outstanding Reversed 50 work and I, like the folks who are now showing an interest, decided I had to try it out... I have learned a few things a long the way, and this is to share what I have figured out while attempting to get good at it....My hope is that in sharing what I do to get the results I am achieving you will be smoking me shortly, and others who are succesful at it might throw in some useful tips that will help all of us improve..... My set up consists of a 70-200 f4 Canon lens with a reversed Nikkor 50mm f1.4. I made my own adapter to reverse mount the 50 but I don't recommend wasting the time as they are cheap to buy and I am sure more solid.... Here are 2 sites that sell the adapter ring sets and also have some more good info you should read.

http://www.kirkphoto.com/polarizers.html

http://www.camerafilters.com/pages/macrorings.aspx

You are connecting the 50mm and what ever main lens you are using, filter thread to filter thread by way of the rings from the above sites....

In shooting the rev 50 set up you must get the flash out to the front of the stacked lenses as working distance will usually be 1" or less. Needless to say a hot shoe mounted flash won't squeek in where the light needs to get with so little space....Sooo... Off camera flash adapter chord is a must and you will need a good flash bracket as well.... I am currently liking the Manfrotto macro flash bracket as it seems to have plenty of adjustment, though at times I wish it was a bit more rigid but it works fine...I also have 2 different flash units. 1 MT-24 and a basic 420 with Stofen diffuser. I just use the basic 420 on the bracket for the rev 50 setup because the MT needs to be rigged and I hate using tape to hold the flash head mount on which I have done but it sucks.. When hand holding your shots this will be what you want. When tripod shooting I usually remove the flash from the bracket and take 3 shots essentially bracketing by changing the flash angle and location to see what is most effective.... Focusing can be a real challenge because you are shooting in manual mode and that includes focusing..... (Be sure any auto focus function is turned off on your lenses). If hand holding indoors I usually have a good bright room light on.... If tripod shooting I will often times use a flashlight to illuminate the bug to hit "perfect" focus, and then turn it off and start shooting.... I assume some people use other means for all of this stuff, but I use as little as I can get away with .

The basic lens settings..

If you have a manual 50mm you will set the lens aperture wide open.. If auto, mount the lens to camera, turn the camera on and adjust aperture to wide open. Turn camera off and lens will remain at that setting... Remove lens and mount to main lens..... The aperture needs to be wide open to help reduce vignetting, and with lenses stacked it is a plus that it lets as much light in as possible . I have no experience shooting a prime lens as my main lens and so can only share my experience using the 70-200 zoom... My guess is any main lens that is capable of 65mm focal length or longer will work well for that up close and personal outcome..

I leave the 50 set up at minimum focusing distance and never use it to focus... "Set it and forget it"... I use the focusing ring on the main lens occasionally but usually achieve focus moving the lens in and out. If I am using tripod I will use the focus ring if I am really close to focus and don't want to mess with moving the tripod as I don't use a focusing rail.... Main reason is bugs move and the less to fiddle with the better IMHO..

What I have found I really like about using a zoom lens for the primary lens is it allows you to frame the shots. 70mm gives a wider view and many times you can get a bug profile shot and get most or all of the bug in the frame. When you want to shoot for detail on an eye, a Midge, aphid, or some other dust speck size bug you can zoom right up to 200 and count the number of dingle berries if you are so inclined ... The flash I leave set on ETTL, with High Speed Sync and it seems to adjust pretty well....

Typically I start with the following settings if hand holding... ISO 200, f11 and shutter speed 250. I take a couple of test shots to see how the exposure looks and adjust as need usually adjusting shutter speed, but not going below 160...If still under exposed I will take aperture down to f5.6, but keeping in mind the DOF gets reallllly thin at about that point.... Final step is jack the ISO if needed....The adjustments priority changes if DOF is a prime consideration...... You do need to experiment to find what works best for the shot you are going for.....Quite often for me the sweet spot seems to be :ISO 100 f20 to f22 and shutter speed 250 to 320. I will shoot as high as f 29 with ISO cranked to 1600 if I want to shoot more depth than just a profile or a detailed surface shot but..... It will give some vignetting and the shot has to be cropped to get rid of it.....

Another critical thing I can think of is you need to pay close attention to the angle at which you are shooting.... If you don't get the lens squared up to the bug you will have one part in perfect focus and the rest of the frame way out...Get squared up when possible.....A good way to practice in the beginning is to get bugs that don't move around much and set up a stage on a kitchen counter (Or whatever is handy) Get some leaves put them on a cup saucer, or Tupperware lid and place the bug out toward the edge.... You can get your rig dialed in fairly easily when you control the stage which with this set up you have a good chance that you will...Flash placement is also key to good shots.... You can also get comfortable with the set up using a pin or other small object to practice focusing technique before trying for things that like to move.....

When possible shoot with flash at different angles and distances.. Check the LCD screen when you can to see if you are looking pretty good..... I shoot Jpeg and don't use the histogram I just look to see if it is looking good, or if it doesn't. To calculate what magnification you have with your particular lens combination you take the focal length of your primary lens and divide that by the focal length of the reversed lens.ie: 200mm divided by 50mm equals 4x or 4:1 magnification.. 4 times life size gets really interesting...I hope this made sense and that it helps get others going on the fun of the Rev 50.....

Once you get the hang of the settings and basic technique it is very cool to see the detail on the reallllly small things.......If I have missed an important step or if anyone has tips to add to this post please feel free.........Take care....Alex

[Alex Paul]

Well I guess this was a hit.... I'll remove it for the space in a day or two....Alex

[yelvertoft]

Originally Posted by Alex Paul

Well I guess this was a hit.... I'll remove it for the space in a day or two....Alex

Don't understand Alex?

[wolfie]

Alex. This is something I tried 4-5 years ago with my old Minolta Dimage 7.
I used a Minolta 50mm f/2.8 lens reversed onto the fixed lens of the D7.

I found the best way of illuminating the subject was to bounce flash oaround several sheets of white A4 paper.

The results where quite interesting, but all suffered from vignetting which required the image to be cropped.

Much prefer to use my macro lens + extension tubes.
Here is an example from that time.

Harry

[sassan]

Don't worry for space Alex. Enjoy generosity of WPF.
Good idea. I like this for the fact that you have your zoom (Possibly cropping factor) and ability to use the inverses diaphragm separately for much higher DOF. I will try it hand held or rapped in magazine, fixed with duck tap (I am a firm believer of duck tap remedy for almost everything) and if useful will consider getting one.

[Alex Paul]

Harry: The vignetting is usually a result of the reversed lens not being fast enough or as a result of not being opened up all the way. I am afraid f2.8 isn't a fast enough 50 to get the aperture opened up enough to completely avoid vignetting... I have no vignetting issues but I also use an older Nikkor 50 f1.4.. Here are a couple of shots to show what the full open 50 does.... Keep in mind to that a direct reversed lens or a lens closely matching the length of the reversed does'nt get magnification up to the level to be clearly an advantage over a conventional macro lens.. In my opinion the advantage only comes in using a main lens of 100mm and higher... A wider angle lens can be used to compensate for the lens length being shorter but typicall under 28mm is very difficult to use.... Here are a couple of examples at just under 5x with the main lens set from 70 to 200 and a full set of tubes with the rev 50... Thanks for responding to this as I think if you give it another go you will see it has solid high mag advantages over conventional macro lenses.... One being 3 to 5x possibilities for the cost of a reversing ring, flash bracket and chord...Assuming the lenses are already owned.....Take care....Alex
Spider warning...
Not sure of ID but approx twice the size of a Jumping Spider
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...ifest20872.jpg

Ant
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...erse500192.jpg


Ants having dinner... These guys are about the size of a speck of dust
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...tbugs20282.jpg

To compare: Here is a full grown dragonfly shot with 180 macro and full tube stack.. Max magnification at closest focusing distance..
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...ISO200ALP2.jpg

The macro lenses with tubes get close but as you can see the reversed 50 stacked gets really close on bugs literally the size of a speck of dust... I will post some Midges and other bugs you can hardly see and you will be able to see perfect detail in their eyes.... Anyway. As you can see no detectable vignetting with the set up adjusted properly (with a wide open f1.4 or f1.8 50mm) The difference between 2x and 4x is substantial....Take care and thanks again for responding....Alex

[Alex Paul]

Thanks guys.... Duct tape rules... The 70-200 f4 is a perfect main lens.... The zoom allows quick changes in magnification which is great or framing and for finding the small stuff at low power and then once located zooming the mags up to desired level.... I shot a small Mayfly last night and it was on a white wall.... I would have had trouble finding it if I didn't have the ability to lower mag to 1.4... Once centered I zoomed up to about 150mm or 4x, as any higher it wouldn't fit in the frame....Quite a mag swing.... I have often thought about going to the MP-E but the truth is I don't see a clear advantage as I hand hold my rig and can get the same magnification with fast adjustability, And I have yet to see a clear demonstration of better IQ from the MP-E.... Great lens but 800+ dollars I see no point in spending when multi use lenses put together by way of a 10 dollar adapter ring and a flash bracket and off shoe chord do virtually the same job well....As you can tell I am having a great time with this set up and I hope others give it a go to get more mega macro posts. When you get to 4x and over it opens up a whole new dimension to our world....Alex

[Alex Paul]

Oh I guess it makes sense to leave the how to, after all.... I just figured it may not be of interest....Thanks for the understanding and space ....Alex

[sassan]

Alex loved your macro images.
Thanks so much for sharing your information and it is very valuable indeed.
Can you give me some more info about your flash set up and exposures. I would like to use mobile flash on slave, it is easy to under or over expose. How do you calculate your light?

[robski]

Alex It looks like you have become very practiced with this setup. Some greats shots. It's a good way to make a cheap and effective microscope. Like Harry (Wolfie) I too dabbled with it in the past. The short working distance, focusing and getting light on the subject makes everything tricky. But it seems that you have persevered to good effect. I taped two lens together for this posting of text on the end of a 4mm x 4mm block of metal. An example showing the craftmanship of Monotype in the Hotmetal printing era.

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...ds&name=robski