Printing Problems

[gordon g]

Aaaaarrrrgh!
My printer (Epsom 2100) is not behaving. It has been fine - it recently produced lovely copies of the Scottish images I posted here last month, but suddenly has developed a problem. It has lost the ability to resolve detail and colour in a specific colour range - grass/trees, new birch growth seem to be most affected. Skies are fine, all the detail and tonality I would normally expect, horizons are sharp, blues are ok, but the red-brown-green bit just isnt right . Attached is a scan of a recent print, and a jpeg for comparison.
I've done the obvious things - nozzle check is fine, the test pattern is spot on. In the process of cleaning and printing tests, I have had to change several cartridges - no difference. I have uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers, check the colour management is as usual and printed out an image I know it has printed fine before - no difference. The fault is present regardless of paper type (though more evident on matte papers) and paper manufacturer (tried epsom, fuji and hahnemuhle). I upgraded lightroom to version 1.4.1 before processing my most recent images, but the faultis there on images that predate this.
I cant make sense of this.
Sorry - running out of time - will post the scan and jpeg later

[gordon g]

Right, sorry about that - my turn for the nursery run!
Here are the scan and the jpeg.

I recently got fed up with old Epson 1290 and have changed to canon ix4000 (but don't especially recommend apart from being cheap) so can't help with specifics. Also I now only use Ilford galerie pearl paper, not one of the ones you mention, but an Epson paper will have settings in the driver that come up in the 'colour management' section of the 'preferences' of the software from which you are printing.

Different papers seem to have wildly different colour bias. If like Canon, Epson only have dedicated 'printer profiles' for their own papers, when using another paper you may be able to get some guidance from the paper manufacturer on some settings but use a 'generic' profile (in my case Canon IJ 2005) rather than a profile aimed at an Epson paper even if what you are using appears similar, eg gloss. The Canon 'quality' paper settings print way over towards red on Ilford, ie their coating must be biassed so as to need loads of red.

[Gidders]

Hi Gordon

So lets just clarify

1. you're using the same inks
2. you've tried the same papers
3. a nozzle check is ok
4. a previously OK image now doesn't print ok

so

1. do you have individual profiles for each different paper or do you rely on the printer profiles
2. putting it another way, when you print is colour managemnt managed by printer or by Lightroom?
3. for best results I have a separate profile for each papaer I use and then rather than "managed byprinter" I select "other" and chose the profile for that particular paper. As Chris says the strock profiles that ship with the printer only work well with the manufactures own papers, and even then better results can be achived with bespoke profiles.
4. I'm assuming that you are printing from Lightroom? - this appears to be the onlything in your workflow thats changed
5. has the upgarde to 1.4.1 changed any of your printer settings eg rendering intent?

It looks to me like a colour management problem somewhere in the workflow. Have you tried printing from photoshop (or equivalent that has colour management) rather than lightroom? Or reverting to the previous version of lightroom?

[gordon g]

Same inks, same colour profiles (the epsom ones, but these have produced acceptable results on the fuji and hahnemuhle previous to this problem, although I agree about custom paper profiles), same papers. Same software - I usually print via PS7, and have done so with this test as well. Images processed with Lightroom 1.3 and 1.4.1 show the same problem (those from the older version have printed without a problem previously, and to test the problem I used the original converted TIFF, not reconverted from RAW). Nozzle check pattern is fine.
My first thought was a colour management problem too, but I have reproduced things as exactly as I can to the previously problem free set up (same ink, paper, profile, rendering intent, same file, same software) and the problem persists. I'll double check the colour management - I just cant see what/how things have changed to cause this.

[andy153]

Gordon, the scan looks slightly "pink" to me. Just a thought but could it be a cartridge problem? Out of date or defective batch of cartridge(s) - you say you changed them?

[Rudra Sen]

Originally Posted by Gidders

for best results I have a separate profile for each papaer I use and then rather than "managed byprinter" I select "other" and chose the profile for that particular paper.

I believe this is the key to get good prints from various papers.

[gordon g]

Ok, an update.
I have run a few more test prints on old files that have printed OK. The problem seems to have disappeared on those, so either there was some dirt on the print head that has gone, or my first old file has become corrupted somehow.
But, the problem persists with files I have converted in lightroom 1.4.1. However, this appears to be at least in part, related to the paper chioce. On epsom matte the problem is least pronounced although still present to a degreee, on hahnemuhle photo rag, worst (Rather annoying as this is one of my favourite papers).
So - it would seem that either there was a problem at capture of the new images (unlikely I'd have thought as all the images display fine both in lightroom, PS7 and windows picture viewer regardless of file format), or a problem at conversion in lightroom 1.4.1 that makes the paper profile more critical.
Colour management settings are all as previously.
To test this, I will shoot some images on a new card and process/print as normal. I will also process the current batch of images in Capture 1 as see if the problem persists.
Thanks for the input so far everyone.

looking at your posted images, it does not just seem to be a bias to mauve on the RH one, but as you say, a lack of definition in a range of tones, those belts of trees in mid pic. It looks like the sort of thing one gets if one's elbow gets jogged when trying to do a very fine adjustment on a curve - but this should not apply to an image once converted to tif or jpg.

I don't know what print preview ('soft proof' in NX) quality you get on the progs you are printing from, but may save a bit of ink and paper if there is a 'true reading' one and if you can toggle between proof on/off it may help find a set of settings where there is no visible difference or at least eliminate a few where there obviously is.

Lastly if your epson 2100 driver is of similar vintage to my old 1290 one, in the dialogues immediately before printing, it was essential to turn colour management to 'no change', every time, ie leaving the host software to do it and disable those C,M,Y, contrast & brightness sliders.

[gordon g]

Yes Chris - the driver is only one generation on from your old epsom one. I have always had it set to ICM in custom settings which, until today, has always produced excellent results. I think it may be an interaction between how the new version of lightroom wants to handle colour and the print driver, having experimented a bit more.
PS7 doesnt have an option to overide the printer's colour management, but I think the next step is to print straight from Lightroom using 'other' profiles to avoid a double profiling problem. And, as has been suggested, I think I need to get a custom profile for my favourite papers - I have been meaning to do this for a while, but my results have been ok up to now...
Thanks for all the help so far everyone. I'll keep you posted.