WPF Censorship - POTW

[andy153]

Hi there all,
Last night I added some comments about the current Picture of the Week in the thread entitled "Discussion on Photo of the Week" - this morning I find they have been removed. These are the comments I made - you may or may not agree with them - but I feel I have a right to make them. I also feel that the thread - "DISCUSSION ON PHOTO OF THE WEEK" - is the correct place to make them

"Sorry Scott, I normally like your work and have said so in the past - but this is what you describe it as - a test shot with a new lens - ************! In the thread about POTW where some of us asked for explanations or pointers from the moderators - there was resistance - I challenge them now to describe to us the technical, artistic or photographic merits of this shot!!!! As you say it is a lens TEST SHOT.

In the thread "Sticking my neck out" http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...ead.php?t=3207 several asked for moderators pointers for beginners - this was rejected by them and that is their right also.

However - I do not think my comments are offensive .
IF YOU VISIT SCOTT'S WEB SITE YOU WILL SEE SOME EXCELLENT SHOTS - this one does not do him justice.

NOTE WELL: TO THOSE WHO SPOT DIFFERENCES IN THIS THREAD FROM TIME TO TIME PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM EDITING IT MYSELF -IT IS NOT BEING CENSORED - I HAVE TONED DOWN PARTS WRITTEN IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT - I NEVER INTEND TO UPSET PEOPLE BUT AM AWARE I SOMETIMES DO - I TRUST ALL MAY FIND MY COMMENTS CONSTRUCTIVE AS THAT IS ALWAYS THEIR INTENTION.

[robski]

For once I will have to agree with you Andy. The same thoughts pasted through my mind when I saw the chosen image. No offense is intended but it would be interesting to see why it was thought the best of the bunch this week.

[wolfie]

Andy, your original post is still there, must say I agree with your comments regarding this photo, but we are in the minority, as 12 others think it's great.
I guess 40 years of photography have taught me nothing

Harry

[walwyn]

Each choice is going to be personal, and unless there is hive mindset, each choice will be controversial.

Move on.

[Roy C]

I do not normally even look at the shot of the week but this thread made me curious so I have had a gander at the image in question. I have noticed a big shift lately into the type of image's that are being posted and commented on but if this is considered the 'shot of the week' then me thinks it could be time to move on as this is way beyond me

[yelvertoft]

Dear Andy,

As Stephen posted in the “Sticking my Neck Out” thread,

The moderators choice POTW is selected as follows:-

Throughout the week we scan and keep a note of any photo(s) that we consider to be outstanding according to our own taste and interest. Each of us moderators then nominate ONE and if two or more moderators choose the same photo then its is declared as POTW. If there are no matches then we nominates our second choice, often one or more moderators second choice is a first choice of another moderator.

The simple fact is that each of the moderators has very different tastes, styles and opinions. We are not clones, we do not suppress our personal opinions in order follow central edicts, or hive mindset if you will, when choosing PoTW. As such, it has never been the case that I can recall so far that we have had a unanimous decision will all moderators agreeing on our first choice. As Stephen has explained, it is more usual that one moderators first choice is backed up as another’s second choice to win that week’s selection process. There have been times when no-one’s first choice has been selected and it has been entirely fought out on second choice with sometimes a third choice picture being brought into the mix for discussion. This is the nature of compromise and concession, qualities that are necessary in all walks of life if progress is to be made and decisions taken.

I cannot speak for others, but there have been selections picked for PoTW that have left me cold, do nothing for me (no names, no pack drill), but in the face of votes from others, I’ve had to let it be. I strongly suspect that the other mods have had to bite their lips at times too.

You, and others, have asked for justification from the moderators as to why a particular picture is chosen. As Stephen explained, it is according to our own taste and interest. Given the nature of the selection process, it is going to be very difficult for the moderators to put together a justification. Each moderator will almost certainly have very different opinions and ideas about why they like a particular picture, there are times when I cannot explain why I like a picture, shortlisted for PoTW or otherwise, I just do. There would be times when my input to the justification text would be “I can’t for the life of me understand why the other two like this, it leaves me completely cold”. I hope you can start to see the difficulties associated with your demands.

The act of trawling through an entire week’s gallery posts, and reviewing them to shortlist for PoTW is an extremely time consuming job, particularly so if we have been away for a few days, we do have jobs and other commitments in life. The discussion amongst the mods to thrash out our selections takes another few hours usually. If the masses then demand that we come up with a collective justification which all the mods agree on then that is several more hours of effort to put in.

Regardless of which picture is chosen for PoTW, as Robski and others have implied, it isn’t going to please everybody, as I’ve explained above, it may not even please all of the moderators. Any justification given will simply provide fuel for argument, negativity and division. Such discussion will simply build cliques and promote rival camps, your own comments on Scott’s “Scribbles” is one such example of this.

To quote a WPF member “It amazes me how touchy we can get sometimes”. I don’t care about the thought process behind a picture, or the equipment used; all I care about is the end result, I choose a picture that I like. I am not prepared to put several hours of my free time into the forum just to act as someone’s punchbag, I know other mods feel the same. This would be the overall effect if we were to provide justification for out PoTW choice. To paraphrase your sig file:
"We select pictures of what we like - if someone else likes them - that's a bonus"

That’s all the justification we need for PoTW, let’s leave it at that. Thank you.

Regards,

Duncan

[Al Tee]

Andy,

I can see your point here but I can also see it from the ‘mods’ point of view too. (Not the censorship point).

I believe you are correct that the point you made was a valid point from your personal assessment of the POTW. This is a ‘forum’ and as I understand that to mean, ‘an assembly or meeting place for the discussion or questions of our mutual interest’. In other words, an opportunity to express your points of view and likewise to enlighten ones self to alternative thoughts after perusing the views of others which may contradict your own.

I hence believe you are quite right to be questioning the removal of your point of view.

Alternatively; I believe the POTW was introduced as ‘another topic of interest’, on a weekly basis, to add further appeal to this forum. Also, it added a bit of ‘esteem’ to whomever it was awarded. I personally agree with the alternative view to that of yours; in that whoever wins, ‘good on em’, well done. The awarded pic may or may not be to my taste but it’s something I can look at and form my own views on why it was chosen. This is my view.

I also looked at it this way, maybe correctly, maybe not; and that was that if I were a ‘mod’ I’d be seriously thinking, after the ‘sticking my neck out again’ thread, well, never mind sticking my neck out; you can actually ‘stick this mod business where the sun don’t shine’! I’d be as sick as a parrot at the continual grief I was receiving for basically contributing a hell of a lot of my spare time to making this forum an improved place for everyone’s benefit.

I’ve recently been in dispute with the ‘mods’ over something I felt strongly about, but, I’ve now hopefully been able to take ‘a couple of steps backward’ and have assessed things from a distance. Was I as committed in my belief that I was right? Hell; I’ll say so. But now, with hindsight I may not have been as tactful, appreciative, and, dare I say it, respectful, (without being labelled as grovelling); as I could have been.

Going back to your topic; this weeks POTW. Are all our shots not ‘test shot’s? We press the shutter; chimp; & delete more than we save. In my opinion ‘Scott’ had the photographic awareness to ‘try’ the shot; it just so happened to work extremely well & appealed to many.

Regards,

Al.

[yelvertoft]

Thank you Al for a well composed, structured, rational post.

[insert appluading smiley here]

[Birdsnapper]

Well said, Al.
I didn't appreciate the POTW and couldn't understand why it was chosen (sorry Scott) - but that is my shortcomings as a photographer. It would have been useful if the mods had said why they liked it, but that would have been received wisdom - far better for my development to study and try to understand another branch of photography.
I'm also pleased that experienced photographers such as the mods can't say why they like an image, but just do - it's my reaction to many photos that are posted - in the end that's what it's all about: producing pleasing photos.

[Derekb]

I, like Andy am well known for my "tell it like it is approach" and don't usually shy away from saying what I think.

I posted in the "sticking neck out" thread that it would be welcome to see the rationale behind the POTW choices made, but it seems this is not going to happen, which seems a pity.

I'm not having a pop, I know how hard it can be running a forum (I've done it myself - cycling related) but feel the POTW is IMHO just not representative of the quality shown on this forum. This is no reflection on the image takers and I realise I'll probably never have an image chosen, but it would be nice to have some idea what makes the chosen images "stand out".

Just my 2p worth.