WPF Censorship - POTW

[andy153]

CLARIFICATION: May I clear up one point about this thread. My comments on the Gallery entry for POTW are there and have been modified by me today. I originally duplicated those comments and placed them in the thread entitled "Discussion on POTW" - That entry was deleted by a moderator and we have discussed the matter - the moderator agrees he was a bit hasty but thought my comment too inflammatory. I agree with him and have edited accordingly.
This forum is the BEST photography forum I have come across and I would hate to see us turn into factions or cliques - I have enough of that in my clergy profession.
I believe we all learn from constructive criticism and not making comments is often a way out, but we do not learn from one another or share our experience by opting out - that is why I try and comment on as many pictures as possible.
Photography is a dynamic, living art form - stop learning and it dies or becomes a sterile desert. We will all have our likes and dislikes but we must always be free to share our honest opinions with one another.
The moderators of this forum have a thankless task and we are free to bash them when we like. Duncan gets it right above when he paraphrases my signature - "Moderators choose POTW from what they like - if others like it - thats a bonus" - Thanks Duncan. I think the work they do is admirable and I for one would not wish myself in their shoes - I'm very grateful for all the work they do behind the scenes on our behalf so we can continue to enjoy this forum and learn about our craft. But we are all human and we all make mistakes - I will be hearing confessions after this post. Please continue to ENJOY AND SHARE

I feel a little bit of guilt having previously stuck a question mark over what the POTW choice was coming up with.

After a day or two musing, and even slinking back to WAB whence I came for a day, my conclusion is that this forum has gained enough strength over the 2 years (+) it has been running to hold together a very wide range of photographic interests. That has to mean that upto a 1/3 of the interests may, for a while, leave a particular member 'cold', but I am pretty sure there is enough overlap and shifting of individual tastes and styles for there to be no risk of splitting into factions.

I would add that I use WPF as a complement to pbase. There one can post whole galleries of stuff that wouldn't get a single comment here and communicate selectively with an even wider range of photgraphers internationally. Here one nethertheless gets a sense of community, plenty of help when needed, and an occasional laugh.

It is the mods we have to thank for this and I would like to take this opportunity of doing so.

[Christine]

Having viewed the aforementioned shot,can see why it is causing the controversy.
Perhaps,because it is Scott's interpretation of his shot.How many of us would take a shot of some script,which conveys,not a lot.Nigel Blakes comment on the image was very good.
An interesting choice for the POTW.Yes,perhaps not everyones fav image.But different.
Scott has used his imagination with this shot.For most people with a new macro lens,the first port of call would be the nearest flower bud,or a still life on the dining room table,or in Al's case,the kitchen!!!.
But good to see a debate on the subject.

[robski]

Trying not to lose sight that PoTW is meant to be a light hearted affair it does strike me that everybody is making very hard work of it. It is not my intention to offend Mods or past recipients of PoTW but I would like to air my views on the subject. Watching members rallying around and papering over the cracks is doing little to improve matters. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the purpose was to pick images that showed some merit and stood head and shoulders above the rest. As opposed to picking an image that purely falls outside the spectrum of the posted norm. Maybe I am wrong and we should start a new galley sections called "Shock & Horror" so we can explore our darker side for a change. After studying the 8 PoTW I would only consider 3 of them to have any merit discounting the fact whether they were the best for that week. I suspect other forum member are of a similar opinion and hence the current controversy. In the case of Scott's image I raised an eyebrow because it is a classic cliche / tutorial shot illustrating shallow DOF. The attached example only took 5 seconds to find searching the web. Reading the comments attached to Scott's image was it picked because of his hand written script or the skill in its execution ?

After reading Duncan's explanation of the selection procedure I am left feeling rather bemused. I must admit I am not a big fan of so called committee styled decision making. The fact is committees never make a decision they just agree to compromise. What concerns me is that it is theoretically possible that the committee has reached it's 20th choice before some agreement is struck. In which case it is probably best not to declare a PoTW for that week.

May I offer suggestions, feel free to shoot down in flames if you so desire.

Firstly why restrict it to one outright winner ? If a small number are worthy then why not list them all in no particular order.

Secondly to help prevent the committee getting stuck in a rut with choosing their own personal favourites and styles why not invite a random guest judge from the regular forum members. Even if its just to give the deciding vote. I am sure a few would jump at the chance to help out.

[Adey Baker]

I reckon that the Mods are having a larf to see whether we're awake or not - even Scott realised (after a tip from Nigel) that he hadn't made the best of a promising situation

It's always great to see the world 'anew' when we get a new lens, especially a macro which allows us to focus very closely on everyday objects that we'd overlooked before. Long before I bought my first macro, I borrowed a set of extension tubes from a workmate and I still have some of the shots that I took of whatever came to hand when I was trying them out. I'm going through my old slides at the moment and have found a few of them - perhaps I should have posted one or two into the gallery instead of some old mountain views

Looking through previous POTW selections, it's clear that the Mods have steered away from what might be termed 'traditional' shots (no chance of any mountain views getting through!). Whether this is deliberate or not is hard to determine as they're not going to tell us why they picked them - fair enough, as we then have to look again at them to make up our own minds.

I hope the Mods don't start to modify their choice in order to avoid to much flak and, even more importantly, I hope members don't start tailoring their photos to match what they think the Mods might look for.

The last thing we need is for everyone to start posting similar shots to each other - we all see the world in a different way and we should all post shots that reflect that view rather than how we think someone else might take it.

Anyway, with tongue very firmly in cheek, here is my entry for the 'Emperoror's New Clothes' award:

1 It shows the use of a macro lens
2 It shows what can be achieved with a relatively slow shutter speed, hand-held (ie. I didn't bother setting it up too much!)
3 It shows how you 'correct' the white-balance post-capture (shot in room-lighting, originally)
4 It shows what can be achieved with a modern digital camera by going up to 1600ISO (see point 2)
5 it is of a section of a lens test target that was given away with a Soligor lens that I bought in the early '70s, putting a historical slant on the shot (showing the cofidence that independent lens makers used to have in their products)
6 It should really be taken at 26x the lens' focal-length for the readings to be 'accurate' but as this is a close-up of one section, it shows that the photographer is not hide-bound by any 'conventional restraints' on his creativity
7 Despite points 4 and 6 and the quality-loss with 'save for web' compression, it shows that the Sigma 50mm EX Macro lens is quite a good optic, more than capable of delivering the kind of shot that you hoped it might do when you first bought it (though the autofocus motor is a bit noisy if you're used to USM-type lenses!)

[Al Tee]

As I've previously mentioned in this thread; this, by means of being a 'forum' is allowing those with views to air them.
It's quite plain that there are strong feelings regarding the POTW subject, and the dislike of the way it is being judged at the moment.
Suggestion; form a POTW committee consisting of 'non mods', whom would therefore set out a basic structure for judging & whom could liasse between each other by 'PM' at the end of each week to decide the winner and also to agree & post a detailed description of why that shot was a winner.
I know Jamie is of a different opinion to myself on this one; he's a right to his view. There appears to be around half a dozen with the same view on this thread alone. There must be at least 10 members who would wish to commit to the weekly judging. I'd go along with & accept their decisions too.
What do you think?
Al.

[andy153]

Hi to all - I think it is about time I entered this thread again - once more to throw some petrol on the fire it seems to have ignited - I would love to see such passion in all of our photographs - that is where I believe it truly belongs.

First: I am not trying to paper over any cracks - I started this thread because I was annoyed that a moderator had removed from this section - "Discussion on POTW" a comment that I had made about the POTW. We have discussed the matter via pm and agree we were both wrong He was hasty in removing the comment - I was a little savage/blunt - as is often my way and I have made my comments more constructive ( which is what I usually do - I hope ).

Second: I think the POTW is a great idea, but perhaps, the format needs to be looked at - as already mentioned - anything chosen by committee is usually a compromise. So why not make POTW an individual choice? Individual moderator OR individual member - chosen by moderators or statistically from those who post a lot - use the forum regularly? Just a thought. Some - may then find the time to also add comments and reasons for their choice.


Third: Please remember we are all learning: if you think you know it all then you have died photographically - you just haven't realized it yet - but it will be reflected in your pictures. A technically perfect picture can be soulless and a beginners snap can have a life and vibrancy that makes it sing even if it shows poor technique.

Fourth and Last: Never let our disagreements become personal - healthy debate is a sign of a healthy family/forum - and apart from me - none of you are right all the time - someone tells me it is inherited Papal infallibility

[Birdsnapper]

A committee is a committee is a committee - no matter how it's constituted or how it votes. Let's leave the POTW as it is.

[jamieZ740]

The forum ig getting bigger and bigger, with countries joining at a time. dont you think the moderator team should be extended? maybe then someone new will commit and then you wouldnt have to expect all the mods to be involved each week!?

I nominate Al, If he can deal with Mods with attitude, he can be one eh ?

J

[Derekb]

I have a great idea, which may well work out and gives everyone a chance to be a part of the selection process.

The image with the largest number of comments at a certain day/time at the end of each week is chosen as the POTW.

Now many may well say that in the above scenario the current POTW would have been chosen - I disagree because this is a one off and many people have commented on this image to show support for the mods.

If we start from scratch it will not matter what one individual thinks, it will be a real group decision and in my opinion will help make members feel part of the selection process.

Comments please????